IMPO, ROK bullying culture is very similar to US gun culture. No one seems to care about the problem until someone dies and then it’s performative sympathy that is forgotten once a new headline appears. Everyone knows there is a problem, but as a whole, society isn’t willing to implement the necessary changes to save lives. Most of the time is because it doesn’t personally affect them so it’s not a priority. The unrealistic standards of perfection & refusing redemption for non-predatory/violent crimes also should be addressed. Truly hoping for change for ROK in this aspect. I empathize as a US citizen who also sees the damage of performative sympathy on a regular basis.
There’s no excuse for DUI but luckily no one was hurt. If my math is right she would not have been of drinking age for very long when it happened. And if the drinking culture in Korea is anything like they portray in K-dramas then the outrage towards DUI seems ironic at the very least if not outright hypocritical.
If KSH was dating her when she was 15 then shame on him. But at this point it’s pure speculation by Korean media. I can’t help but wonder what the headline is going to be if they drive him to the same conclusion.
According to the Journal of Studies on Alcohol and Drugs, in South Korea, "individuals are legally allowed access to alcohol from January 1 of the year in which they turn 19. This study examined the effects of the legal drinking age laws in South Korea on alcohol consumption." She turned 19 on July 31, 2019.
South Korea definitely has a strong drinking culture that made/makes it difficult for pregnant women, who want to keep their pregnancy quiet until they're ready to talk about it. If you're not drinking, people will want to know why.
(Tone: Soft / Sincere) Thank you for your direct, discerning, eloquent, and among much else heartfelt words; not to mention, for touching on this ‘trending’ topic with sensitivity and grace 🙏🏼
(T: Reflective) I often ponder the points you’ve raised & for me they feel like a ball of tangled threads. Since yours is the only clear & levelheaded take I have read on the matter I have a few things to ponder as it pertains to the tragic events surrounding Kim Sae-Ron.
One thing I will say is to the point that it’s not just the entertainment industry at fault (this isn’t about defending it- I think it’s safe to say we all agree plenty needs to change); we all play a role…
I think if more people took the time to reflect on what role they want to ‘play’ before they hit ‘post’ (no matter how well-meaning an emotionally reactive post may be…) or gossip in the name of moral-superiority? then perhaps the artists we love & treasure (not to mention- those who deserve our gratitude for their gifts) wouldn’t turn to such drastic measures so often…of course, there is much more to consider, but I’ll leave it here for now.
Thank you, Scarlett. Social media is a wonderful thing as times. But it also provides people an outlet to be unusually cruel to each other without consequences (in most cases). People behave differently to your face than when they are anonymous.
Way back in the days before being online was even a thing, I received hate mail by USPS or phone after I wrote an article. With the latter, they would hang up before I got a word in. But with the mail, I was able to trace who some of them were and call them up. Almost every one of them backed off and apologized for what they had written. We were able to have actual conversations about why they were so angry. I think a lot of us are bolder when we (assume) we're anonymous.
(Tone: Sincere) Re: The psychology around social media anonymity: 💯 you’ve said it perfectly! What you’ve touched on is one of the many reasons I do my best to advocate for self-reflection, self-accountability, self-responsibility, etc…knowing very well that it is an ignored & thankless endeavor (that tends to attract the cruel behavior/commentary otherwise directed elsewhere) but I digress…
Re: The days before we were online– I remember you shared an Instagram story about, I believe it was a screenshot of an awful email you had received back in the day touching on this subject that led us to briefly exchange on it. I’m glad you’ve been able to share the experience again here- so others can see & reflect as well! One thing is clear- when we hide anonymously to be cruel we suppress our humanity, which leads me to wonder why when we hide anonymously to be uplifting it’s as if we need to protect it…
I often think that if more journalists adopted your authentic, insightful, inspiring, thought-provoking approach to writing on these topics rather than the “Breaking News- come and get your fix of sensationalism & let your emotions explode & make your fingers run wild without thinking” perhaps- at the very least, we can buy some time for things to change where they need to…of course, I can play devil’s advocate & find something positive about the way things are…but truthfully, the thought of it exhausts me.
It's crazy how in Korea you can get bullied into un-aliving yourself, like the actor from Parasite. Some have done truly horrible things and are alive and well, though! Like the singer from Big-Bang. But bullying is out of control.
People will say, "Just ignore them." But when you've got thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of people coming at you online non-stop, that's a burden few could bear.
No, there is NO way to ignore hundred of thousands of voices of people who know your face. It must be so scary and hopeless. Every time I go on that bridge with the messages dissuading people from jumping, I feel so angry and sad.
This is a tangent, but I've seen a few comments that indicate netizens are trying to drag GDragon into this. It seems to be a similar situation as to the baseless drug investigation that lead to Lee Sun Kyun's death. Is this something that's gaining traction? The whole situation is really tragic.
From what I've seen, they are dragging any well-known celeb into this mess. I'm not surprised about G-Dragon, since KSH is currently on his show. He apparently liked a comment saying that KSH should be kicked off his show. (I don't know if he actually did or not. But I can say that I have accidentally liked comments, and also unintentionally followed or unfollowed people and didn't realize it at the time.)
They're comparing how Seo Kang-joon behaved towards KSR vs. how KSH did. SKJ was on a show where the host(ess) suggested that he and KSR could be a couple and he said something like, "What are you talking about? She's a minor!"
Seo Yea-ji has expressed frustration that she is being dragged into this conversation about KSH.
It's apparently open season and it's very ugly. KSH's agency said they will release another comment next week, which doesn't have good optics. But, if they're gathering all their facts to rebut what has been said, maybe it'll work? They would need forensic proof that he didn't send the photos, write her letters etc.
About ten years ago I was in Doha, Qatar. It was and still remains one of the most "I'm not in Kansas anymore" moments - such a strange, restrictive society.
But you know, the country you and I are from, Jae, in some ways it is not that different from that super patriarchal society. I can't believe this actress actually worked at a cafe?!?
I wonder how the young people of Korea are interpreting this tragedy. Because, let's face it, it's up to them to shift the culture. Are they exhibiting outrage? Or shrugging their shoulders? Or, unthinkably, nodding their head in agreement with the suicide, accepting it as something fitting?
One of the reasons my father wanted to move us from South Korea to the U.S. was so that his daughters would live in a less restrictive society. As we both know, the U.S./미국 isn't that mythical place that so many immigrants were told it was. I worry, a lot, about what we are leaving to Gen Z (and younger) to clean up.
Isn't this the inevitablewi outcome of the commodification of parasocial relationships? If you devote enormous sums of money, time, and effort to cultivating the belief in your audience that they have a personal relationship with their heros, then that audience is going to feel as if they have the right to express opinions. The entertainment companies manipulate the audience in this way to increase revenue, but the artists are the ones who pay the immediate price - and all of society pays a long-term price when our respect for the humanity of others deteriorates.
I know that as a Westerner, I have little experience with the pressures of a more collectivist society, but the natural tendency to form relationships seems to have been corrupted by greed.
It's not just that. Management has been creating the dreamboat images of its stars since the Golden Age of Hollywood. Gay celebrities were presented as straight. Actors and actresses always said they were single (and therefore creating the illusion that they were available to date/marry a fan later). I used to write for teen mags when I was in school, and they helped cater to this fantasy world very well.
The thing that's different today is that anonymity is involved in a fan's interactions with the celebrity. Few would say such cruel things to a person's face, but it's so easy to pile-on when you're on the internet.
I was definitely thinking of how anonymity allows people say to horrible things. It's as if netizens become spiteful toddlers ("I hate you!") when they feel personally offended, and they seem to feel their destruction is justified. But where toddlers might kick over a building of blocks, netizens ruin lives. I've been shocked by so many suicide and by what happened to Suga, and now I'm so sorry for this poor girl and her family. I have no idea about KSH, but I've loved his dramas and can't seem to stop my social media feed from showing me the hate. I can't imagine what it is to live like this.
As someone who is not Korean, my first thought was, well why don’t the celebrities speak up more about it? That leaves them under more scrutiny though, which they already have heaps of. I’ve seen more high profile celebs talk about the bullying, but even then, they seem to more so allude to it than outright say it.
I think, as you said, it is a societal issue at large, but when society seems to not be really talking about it (again, not Korean so take what I say about Korean society with a grain of salt) what then is an option for them?
It would seem then that the only way to lesson the rate of bullying and suicide is to have some type of platform where they can talk honestly so that the conversation gets started. But again, that puts them under scrutiny and opens them up to more bullying should people not like what they say (even when talking about their own experience). Seems to be something that just goes around and around in circles with the no real change, as you mentioned.
I don't know what can be done, because no one seems to care until someone dies. And then it's all platitudes before it happens again. Everyone is afraid to stick up for what's right, because they don't want their careers to tank or to be the subject of that kind of harassment.
It looks like the tide is turning and the K-Dramaverse is having second thoughts about the rumor-based persecution of Kim Soo-hyun. I was not ready to paint him as the devil based on unsubstantiated claims by family members driven by greed. To be sure, the tragedy of losing Kim Sae-ron is heartbreaking. When someone decides life is too painful to continue living, truly bereaved family members become introspective, not accusatory. This family turned their energies toward the same bullying at Kim Soo-hyun that began unraveling their loved one. I hope he takes them to the cleaners in court but that won't reverse the irreparable damage to Kim Soo-hyun's career. (PS you left out Jerry Lee Lewis who at 22 married his 13 year old cousin.)
I hate the fact that koreans bully the celebrities.i really think its worse that bullying.like when i hear the dating news of my favorite celebrity I'm happy for them but korean people say what you dated? You should die :|
‘What I am saying is that two things can be true. You can commit a crime, and you can atone for your actions without being harassed to death.’
If all the accusations are true, do you think Kim Soo Hyun should be forgiven?
When films and dramas are cancelled or delayed for ages, such as The Match the release of which has been postponed because of Yoo Ah In’s drugs case, it is incredibly bad luck on all the other actors and people employed in the drama. Now no doubt the same will happen with Kim Soo Hyun’s latest drama, Knock-Off, unless it’s re filmed with another actor which presumably would be difficult as he had the lead role.
I’m curious why celebrities are held up to such high standards. Is that a reflection of Korean culture?
I’m pretty unfamiliar with the stories circulating about Kim Soo-hyun. One thing that stuck out to me is, why now? Why come forward now? Maybe KSH could insulate himself using the defamation law?
Does this happen in politics too? Is the defamation law a limitation on free speech? A (pro KSH) hot take I read was “…but our politicians can be pedophiles” which I have no context for, but if it’s true are people also not holding their politicians accountable?
Are political leaders untouchable or insulated from critique in a way that idols and stars are because of this law?
IMPO, ROK bullying culture is very similar to US gun culture. No one seems to care about the problem until someone dies and then it’s performative sympathy that is forgotten once a new headline appears. Everyone knows there is a problem, but as a whole, society isn’t willing to implement the necessary changes to save lives. Most of the time is because it doesn’t personally affect them so it’s not a priority. The unrealistic standards of perfection & refusing redemption for non-predatory/violent crimes also should be addressed. Truly hoping for change for ROK in this aspect. I empathize as a US citizen who also sees the damage of performative sympathy on a regular basis.
Lots of thoughts and prayers... And that's about it.
There’s no excuse for DUI but luckily no one was hurt. If my math is right she would not have been of drinking age for very long when it happened. And if the drinking culture in Korea is anything like they portray in K-dramas then the outrage towards DUI seems ironic at the very least if not outright hypocritical.
If KSH was dating her when she was 15 then shame on him. But at this point it’s pure speculation by Korean media. I can’t help but wonder what the headline is going to be if they drive him to the same conclusion.
According to the Journal of Studies on Alcohol and Drugs, in South Korea, "individuals are legally allowed access to alcohol from January 1 of the year in which they turn 19. This study examined the effects of the legal drinking age laws in South Korea on alcohol consumption." She turned 19 on July 31, 2019.
South Korea definitely has a strong drinking culture that made/makes it difficult for pregnant women, who want to keep their pregnancy quiet until they're ready to talk about it. If you're not drinking, people will want to know why.
(Tone: Soft / Sincere) Thank you for your direct, discerning, eloquent, and among much else heartfelt words; not to mention, for touching on this ‘trending’ topic with sensitivity and grace 🙏🏼
(T: Reflective) I often ponder the points you’ve raised & for me they feel like a ball of tangled threads. Since yours is the only clear & levelheaded take I have read on the matter I have a few things to ponder as it pertains to the tragic events surrounding Kim Sae-Ron.
One thing I will say is to the point that it’s not just the entertainment industry at fault (this isn’t about defending it- I think it’s safe to say we all agree plenty needs to change); we all play a role…
I think if more people took the time to reflect on what role they want to ‘play’ before they hit ‘post’ (no matter how well-meaning an emotionally reactive post may be…) or gossip in the name of moral-superiority? then perhaps the artists we love & treasure (not to mention- those who deserve our gratitude for their gifts) wouldn’t turn to such drastic measures so often…of course, there is much more to consider, but I’ll leave it here for now.
Thank you again for your words! 🙏🏼💜🖤✌🏼
Thank you, Scarlett. Social media is a wonderful thing as times. But it also provides people an outlet to be unusually cruel to each other without consequences (in most cases). People behave differently to your face than when they are anonymous.
Way back in the days before being online was even a thing, I received hate mail by USPS or phone after I wrote an article. With the latter, they would hang up before I got a word in. But with the mail, I was able to trace who some of them were and call them up. Almost every one of them backed off and apologized for what they had written. We were able to have actual conversations about why they were so angry. I think a lot of us are bolder when we (assume) we're anonymous.
(Tone: Sincere) Re: The psychology around social media anonymity: 💯 you’ve said it perfectly! What you’ve touched on is one of the many reasons I do my best to advocate for self-reflection, self-accountability, self-responsibility, etc…knowing very well that it is an ignored & thankless endeavor (that tends to attract the cruel behavior/commentary otherwise directed elsewhere) but I digress…
Re: The days before we were online– I remember you shared an Instagram story about, I believe it was a screenshot of an awful email you had received back in the day touching on this subject that led us to briefly exchange on it. I’m glad you’ve been able to share the experience again here- so others can see & reflect as well! One thing is clear- when we hide anonymously to be cruel we suppress our humanity, which leads me to wonder why when we hide anonymously to be uplifting it’s as if we need to protect it…
I often think that if more journalists adopted your authentic, insightful, inspiring, thought-provoking approach to writing on these topics rather than the “Breaking News- come and get your fix of sensationalism & let your emotions explode & make your fingers run wild without thinking” perhaps- at the very least, we can buy some time for things to change where they need to…of course, I can play devil’s advocate & find something positive about the way things are…but truthfully, the thought of it exhausts me.
Thank you again for your words! 🤗💜🖤✌🏼
It's crazy how in Korea you can get bullied into un-aliving yourself, like the actor from Parasite. Some have done truly horrible things and are alive and well, though! Like the singer from Big-Bang. But bullying is out of control.
People will say, "Just ignore them." But when you've got thousands (hundreds of thousands?) of people coming at you online non-stop, that's a burden few could bear.
No, there is NO way to ignore hundred of thousands of voices of people who know your face. It must be so scary and hopeless. Every time I go on that bridge with the messages dissuading people from jumping, I feel so angry and sad.
This is a tangent, but I've seen a few comments that indicate netizens are trying to drag GDragon into this. It seems to be a similar situation as to the baseless drug investigation that lead to Lee Sun Kyun's death. Is this something that's gaining traction? The whole situation is really tragic.
From what I've seen, they are dragging any well-known celeb into this mess. I'm not surprised about G-Dragon, since KSH is currently on his show. He apparently liked a comment saying that KSH should be kicked off his show. (I don't know if he actually did or not. But I can say that I have accidentally liked comments, and also unintentionally followed or unfollowed people and didn't realize it at the time.)
They're comparing how Seo Kang-joon behaved towards KSR vs. how KSH did. SKJ was on a show where the host(ess) suggested that he and KSR could be a couple and he said something like, "What are you talking about? She's a minor!"
Seo Yea-ji has expressed frustration that she is being dragged into this conversation about KSH.
It's apparently open season and it's very ugly. KSH's agency said they will release another comment next week, which doesn't have good optics. But, if they're gathering all their facts to rebut what has been said, maybe it'll work? They would need forensic proof that he didn't send the photos, write her letters etc.
About ten years ago I was in Doha, Qatar. It was and still remains one of the most "I'm not in Kansas anymore" moments - such a strange, restrictive society.
But you know, the country you and I are from, Jae, in some ways it is not that different from that super patriarchal society. I can't believe this actress actually worked at a cafe?!?
I wonder how the young people of Korea are interpreting this tragedy. Because, let's face it, it's up to them to shift the culture. Are they exhibiting outrage? Or shrugging their shoulders? Or, unthinkably, nodding their head in agreement with the suicide, accepting it as something fitting?
One of the reasons my father wanted to move us from South Korea to the U.S. was so that his daughters would live in a less restrictive society. As we both know, the U.S./미국 isn't that mythical place that so many immigrants were told it was. I worry, a lot, about what we are leaving to Gen Z (and younger) to clean up.
Isn't this the inevitablewi outcome of the commodification of parasocial relationships? If you devote enormous sums of money, time, and effort to cultivating the belief in your audience that they have a personal relationship with their heros, then that audience is going to feel as if they have the right to express opinions. The entertainment companies manipulate the audience in this way to increase revenue, but the artists are the ones who pay the immediate price - and all of society pays a long-term price when our respect for the humanity of others deteriorates.
I know that as a Westerner, I have little experience with the pressures of a more collectivist society, but the natural tendency to form relationships seems to have been corrupted by greed.
It's not just that. Management has been creating the dreamboat images of its stars since the Golden Age of Hollywood. Gay celebrities were presented as straight. Actors and actresses always said they were single (and therefore creating the illusion that they were available to date/marry a fan later). I used to write for teen mags when I was in school, and they helped cater to this fantasy world very well.
The thing that's different today is that anonymity is involved in a fan's interactions with the celebrity. Few would say such cruel things to a person's face, but it's so easy to pile-on when you're on the internet.
I was definitely thinking of how anonymity allows people say to horrible things. It's as if netizens become spiteful toddlers ("I hate you!") when they feel personally offended, and they seem to feel their destruction is justified. But where toddlers might kick over a building of blocks, netizens ruin lives. I've been shocked by so many suicide and by what happened to Suga, and now I'm so sorry for this poor girl and her family. I have no idea about KSH, but I've loved his dramas and can't seem to stop my social media feed from showing me the hate. I can't imagine what it is to live like this.
As someone who is not Korean, my first thought was, well why don’t the celebrities speak up more about it? That leaves them under more scrutiny though, which they already have heaps of. I’ve seen more high profile celebs talk about the bullying, but even then, they seem to more so allude to it than outright say it.
I think, as you said, it is a societal issue at large, but when society seems to not be really talking about it (again, not Korean so take what I say about Korean society with a grain of salt) what then is an option for them?
It would seem then that the only way to lesson the rate of bullying and suicide is to have some type of platform where they can talk honestly so that the conversation gets started. But again, that puts them under scrutiny and opens them up to more bullying should people not like what they say (even when talking about their own experience). Seems to be something that just goes around and around in circles with the no real change, as you mentioned.
I don't know what can be done, because no one seems to care until someone dies. And then it's all platitudes before it happens again. Everyone is afraid to stick up for what's right, because they don't want their careers to tank or to be the subject of that kind of harassment.
I'm not sure if you're familiar with what Tablo of Epik High went through with TaJinYo, but he speaks eloquently about how the years of online harassment has impacted who he is today. I wrote about it in Rolling Stone (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/epik-high-tablo-trolls-strawberry-rm-1234669897/), but you can find other articles about it by searching online.
It looks like the tide is turning and the K-Dramaverse is having second thoughts about the rumor-based persecution of Kim Soo-hyun. I was not ready to paint him as the devil based on unsubstantiated claims by family members driven by greed. To be sure, the tragedy of losing Kim Sae-ron is heartbreaking. When someone decides life is too painful to continue living, truly bereaved family members become introspective, not accusatory. This family turned their energies toward the same bullying at Kim Soo-hyun that began unraveling their loved one. I hope he takes them to the cleaners in court but that won't reverse the irreparable damage to Kim Soo-hyun's career. (PS you left out Jerry Lee Lewis who at 22 married his 13 year old cousin.)
I hate the fact that koreans bully the celebrities.i really think its worse that bullying.like when i hear the dating news of my favorite celebrity I'm happy for them but korean people say what you dated? You should die :|
‘What I am saying is that two things can be true. You can commit a crime, and you can atone for your actions without being harassed to death.’
If all the accusations are true, do you think Kim Soo Hyun should be forgiven?
When films and dramas are cancelled or delayed for ages, such as The Match the release of which has been postponed because of Yoo Ah In’s drugs case, it is incredibly bad luck on all the other actors and people employed in the drama. Now no doubt the same will happen with Kim Soo Hyun’s latest drama, Knock-Off, unless it’s re filmed with another actor which presumably would be difficult as he had the lead role.
Thank you for an interesting article.
I’m curious why celebrities are held up to such high standards. Is that a reflection of Korean culture?
I’m pretty unfamiliar with the stories circulating about Kim Soo-hyun. One thing that stuck out to me is, why now? Why come forward now? Maybe KSH could insulate himself using the defamation law?
Does this happen in politics too? Is the defamation law a limitation on free speech? A (pro KSH) hot take I read was “…but our politicians can be pedophiles” which I have no context for, but if it’s true are people also not holding their politicians accountable?
Are political leaders untouchable or insulated from critique in a way that idols and stars are because of this law?