Inevitably, this is complicated. I'm Asian (although... not East Asian, which to some means "not Asian", and that's a different discussion altogether, isn't it?) and I can see why it's racist. But also, I can't help but think of how we present pieces of art from the past, clearly informed by past prejudices.
I'm thinking of the classic Tom and Jerry shorts and how they originally had a stereotypical black maid character—and how they were changed, with the character either edited out or reanimated completely. But I suppose if you don't know the original, you'd be none the wiser.
So I saw the poster, thought it was racist, but I don't think the original poster can be faulted for appreciating some of the aesthetics (but not the portrayal of the Chinese man). I subscribe to your point about not displaying it, unless you wanna be like Harlan Crow and his collection of Nazi memorabilia.
Ah, if only everything ended in productive discourse about how we navigate around this, rather than edgelord-type remarks about how we're easily triggered by their historical (and ongoing) oppression of us.
One of the primary issues is that a lot of people don't consider this to be an offensive depiction of a Chinese man, because to them, this is what an Asian man looks like. Which is why little racist kids (and their shitty parents) to this day pull their eyes up and exaggerate their mouth to simulate having buck teeth.
People keep saying these images were acceptable back in the 1920s without considering who they were acceptable to. (Not Asian people.)
Unrelated: Coca-Cola used to contain cocaine back in the day. They stopped doing that because ... progress.
This is so timely- I inherited 2 large boxes of children’s books recently and despite enjoying the story, I took great issue with the illustrations of one particular book and had to throw it out. Throwing out a book is basically sacrilege for me. I can’t attach pictures here but it was, “The Five Chinese Brothers” from 1938. You guessed it; they were all yellow.
Haha, you’re right! Reminds me of the older fairy tales (un-Disneyfied), you know, where Cinderella’s stepsister chops off her feet to be able to fit into the glass slipper, or Hansel and Gretel who get left to die.
I was in that thread and I’m a white woman, and I immediately cringed at this picture. I mean come on, this is no beautiful woman (how could anyone think that??), or man for that matter. Skin YELLOW yellow, eyes WAY TOO SLANTY, strange exaggerated facial features—an obvious caricature, and in the context that it’s an ad or label, I’m not thinking, Oh! What a respectful representation of an Asian person (person because hard to tell if the image is male or female—another embarrassing stereotype de-sexualizing Asian men.) Later, after you explained very well why it’s offensive and she, or someone, continued being dense, when you asked if she was a white woman I didn’t find it offensive; I thought, Good question! Is she? She sure seems to be (avoiding talking about her own race, plus she just sounds white—as a white woman I can say that lol) and if she is white she’s waaaaayyyy overstepping her bounds. You handled her egregiously ignorant comments well, Jae, and, I think, stopped when you knew you wouldn’t get anywhere. Kudos.
Thank you soooo much for adding to this conversation, Charlotte. To be perfectly crude, I think she just has a ʜᴀᴛᴇ ʙᴏɴᴇʀ for me. (She will probably call me ᵣₐ𝒸ᵢₛₜ for saying that, too...)
The woman who started the poll... I do believe she just wanted to hear different perspectives from people and I commend her for that. It can't feel nice that people don't like your art because it reeks of racism. But the fact that her daughter pointed it out to her made me feel OK to add my views on her thread.
Oh man I could see her hate boner from a mile away. It’s amazing how much she DID NOT WANT to expand her mindset—NOPE NO YOU CAN’T MAKE ME! I was grateful for your comments. I thought they were very astute. Her loss.
I commend the woman who started the poll, too. Good for her for trying to educate herself by getting different perspectives and trying to understand. Sometimes it seems that’s the only place we can start to “get it” if we’re not experiencing it ourselves.
Thanks for all you do, Jae. I always enjoy hearing your perspective. 💜
I just can't imagine how this person could be okay with this poster if they have company over and that company is of Asian descent. I mean...how could that not be embarrassing? There's so much beautiful art in this world - I don't have the wall space to display all that I wish to display...
I got the feeling that she maybe doesn't have any Asian friends. I also think that there are people who don't see that something can be problematic until it is about their own community.
I've heard from so many real-life people that they never heard the word 'ch!nk' so they're surprised when I write about it. And I tell them, "Racists will never say that to you, a white person. And they prob won't say it to your Asian friends when you're around, because they're afraid you will perceive them as being racist, but they don't care what Asians think." It's an ongoing process that seems like it will never end.
I wonder, and I’m a bit hesitant saying this, but if it’s the colours and styles she likes, why not have an East Asian artist recreate this but with a more realistic depiction? (The hesitancy comes from feeling it’s a bit appropriative then, but it would be supporting an artist today. Sorry you had to wade through all that, Jae.
I strive to be of the mindset that if a certain number of people of a particular culture say something is offensive to them (i.e. racist) then I believe them and don't see the need to argue. What scares me is that in some forum I can imagine that "art history buff" making her argument and someone taking it at face value. *cringe*.
The only thing I can really say that might be construed as defending it is, when you look at all the material that falsely depicts Asians, this is one of the more tame ones.
That art history buff is cringe and she may also not be an art history buff. We can all lie so easily on the internet about who we are and what we do.
You're right that there are far worse things out there than this 1920s poster. But I also feel that doesn't give it a pass. Going back to the Coca-cola analogy we were talking about in an earlier comment, putting in just a little cocaine into the soda isn't as bad as putting in the full amount that they used to. But it's still bad. lol
Inevitably, this is complicated. I'm Asian (although... not East Asian, which to some means "not Asian", and that's a different discussion altogether, isn't it?) and I can see why it's racist. But also, I can't help but think of how we present pieces of art from the past, clearly informed by past prejudices.
I'm thinking of the classic Tom and Jerry shorts and how they originally had a stereotypical black maid character—and how they were changed, with the character either edited out or reanimated completely. But I suppose if you don't know the original, you'd be none the wiser.
So I saw the poster, thought it was racist, but I don't think the original poster can be faulted for appreciating some of the aesthetics (but not the portrayal of the Chinese man). I subscribe to your point about not displaying it, unless you wanna be like Harlan Crow and his collection of Nazi memorabilia.
Ah, if only everything ended in productive discourse about how we navigate around this, rather than edgelord-type remarks about how we're easily triggered by their historical (and ongoing) oppression of us.
Good points.
One of the primary issues is that a lot of people don't consider this to be an offensive depiction of a Chinese man, because to them, this is what an Asian man looks like. Which is why little racist kids (and their shitty parents) to this day pull their eyes up and exaggerate their mouth to simulate having buck teeth.
People keep saying these images were acceptable back in the 1920s without considering who they were acceptable to. (Not Asian people.)
Unrelated: Coca-Cola used to contain cocaine back in the day. They stopped doing that because ... progress.
Ahh.
History: nobody cares about your story unless it makes me feel good.
but have we tried putting the cocaine back in? Maybe that's what we really need while the world is on fire.
That's a subject for a different post... lol
This is so timely- I inherited 2 large boxes of children’s books recently and despite enjoying the story, I took great issue with the illustrations of one particular book and had to throw it out. Throwing out a book is basically sacrilege for me. I can’t attach pictures here but it was, “The Five Chinese Brothers” from 1938. You guessed it; they were all yellow.
I looked up the book... and my first thought was, "this is a children's book?" Setting the illustrations aside, it's on the morbid side!
But then, 1938. It feels very... 1938. "You snowflakes can't handle it," I can hear in my head.
Haha, you’re right! Reminds me of the older fairy tales (un-Disneyfied), you know, where Cinderella’s stepsister chops off her feet to be able to fit into the glass slipper, or Hansel and Gretel who get left to die.
The original stories that the Brothers Grimm wrote were not what we're used to now, that's for sure.
Oh wow, I never read that to my child, but I can imagine what the illustrations look like...
I was in that thread and I’m a white woman, and I immediately cringed at this picture. I mean come on, this is no beautiful woman (how could anyone think that??), or man for that matter. Skin YELLOW yellow, eyes WAY TOO SLANTY, strange exaggerated facial features—an obvious caricature, and in the context that it’s an ad or label, I’m not thinking, Oh! What a respectful representation of an Asian person (person because hard to tell if the image is male or female—another embarrassing stereotype de-sexualizing Asian men.) Later, after you explained very well why it’s offensive and she, or someone, continued being dense, when you asked if she was a white woman I didn’t find it offensive; I thought, Good question! Is she? She sure seems to be (avoiding talking about her own race, plus she just sounds white—as a white woman I can say that lol) and if she is white she’s waaaaayyyy overstepping her bounds. You handled her egregiously ignorant comments well, Jae, and, I think, stopped when you knew you wouldn’t get anywhere. Kudos.
Thank you soooo much for adding to this conversation, Charlotte. To be perfectly crude, I think she just has a ʜᴀᴛᴇ ʙᴏɴᴇʀ for me. (She will probably call me ᵣₐ𝒸ᵢₛₜ for saying that, too...)
The woman who started the poll... I do believe she just wanted to hear different perspectives from people and I commend her for that. It can't feel nice that people don't like your art because it reeks of racism. But the fact that her daughter pointed it out to her made me feel OK to add my views on her thread.
Oh man I could see her hate boner from a mile away. It’s amazing how much she DID NOT WANT to expand her mindset—NOPE NO YOU CAN’T MAKE ME! I was grateful for your comments. I thought they were very astute. Her loss.
I commend the woman who started the poll, too. Good for her for trying to educate herself by getting different perspectives and trying to understand. Sometimes it seems that’s the only place we can start to “get it” if we’re not experiencing it ourselves.
Thanks for all you do, Jae. I always enjoy hearing your perspective. 💜
I just can't imagine how this person could be okay with this poster if they have company over and that company is of Asian descent. I mean...how could that not be embarrassing? There's so much beautiful art in this world - I don't have the wall space to display all that I wish to display...
I got the feeling that she maybe doesn't have any Asian friends. I also think that there are people who don't see that something can be problematic until it is about their own community.
I've heard from so many real-life people that they never heard the word 'ch!nk' so they're surprised when I write about it. And I tell them, "Racists will never say that to you, a white person. And they prob won't say it to your Asian friends when you're around, because they're afraid you will perceive them as being racist, but they don't care what Asians think." It's an ongoing process that seems like it will never end.
I wonder, and I’m a bit hesitant saying this, but if it’s the colours and styles she likes, why not have an East Asian artist recreate this but with a more realistic depiction? (The hesitancy comes from feeling it’s a bit appropriative then, but it would be supporting an artist today. Sorry you had to wade through all that, Jae.
Thanks, Leanna. I did read that the woman who created that poll said they are moving; and she will not be displaying that poster in her house.
I strive to be of the mindset that if a certain number of people of a particular culture say something is offensive to them (i.e. racist) then I believe them and don't see the need to argue. What scares me is that in some forum I can imagine that "art history buff" making her argument and someone taking it at face value. *cringe*.
The only thing I can really say that might be construed as defending it is, when you look at all the material that falsely depicts Asians, this is one of the more tame ones.
That art history buff is cringe and she may also not be an art history buff. We can all lie so easily on the internet about who we are and what we do.
You're right that there are far worse things out there than this 1920s poster. But I also feel that doesn't give it a pass. Going back to the Coca-cola analogy we were talking about in an earlier comment, putting in just a little cocaine into the soda isn't as bad as putting in the full amount that they used to. But it's still bad. lol