I haven't seen this particular drama but many of the issues you raise are not only in older dramas (My Lovely Sam Soon, Secret Garden, Boys Over Flowers, etc) but also current ones. I got a fair amount of pushback when I posted a thread about Woo Do Hwan's character being toxic in Mr. Plankton (he literally kidnapped and tied up his ex). Same goes for Ko Moon Young in IOTNBO—toxic AF. But because all these lead characters are beautiful we give them a pass. The whole "dealing with a past trauma" may be a legit reason for their behavior but it should not also be an excuse (IRL this is one reason why so many stay in abusive relationships). I think the thing that surprises and frustrates me the most is many of the screenwriters are women. That and the ones swooning over the beautiful leads (and giving them a pass on their bad behavior) are also women. I guess women (throughout the world) have been conditioned to believe this is the fairytale we should all dream of. BTW, Gil Ra Im kicked Ju Won in the shin in Secret Garden several times for being rude to her. This is one of my favorite K-dramas that I give a bit of a pass to because it's nearly 15 years old. I also see an evolution in Ju Won's character that shows us how he comes to understand what's wrong with his original beliefs and actions.
Great points! I remember a woman on Twitter being angry with me because she said the arm grab/forced kissing was sexy af (her words, not mine). I just don't see it that way.
Secret Garden is ones of those shows that so many people love (like My Lovely Sam-soon), but I'm not one of them. One of the needling points for me is how writers present these women as being great fighters. That's not to say they can fight off men every single time. However, Gil-ra literally could fight off multiple men with her advanced taekwondo skills. But they crumble when a man grabs their wrist. Really? I really, really hate that trope. (Cinderella and Four Knights did this, too.)
Anyhow, I always say there's something for everyone and I enjoy hearing everyone's thoughts about what works (or doesn't work) for them!
Ah, the Korean Hand/Arm Grab. Again. And Again. I think it is partially laziness on the part of writers to continue with this trope. It's easier to do it than to find more positive ways to interact and get someone's attention and have a meaningful conversation. We have all been trained to see it as a normal drama trope and overlook it, along with piggyback rides, episode 14-15 break ups and angst, unaccepting parents, alcohol as a vehicle for meaningful conversations...just because its a formula that sells dramas doesn't mean its not time to move on.
Right! While some tropes have a basis in reality (the meddling parents), I've never seen grownups giving each other piggyback rides like they are presented in dramas.
This is at the very bottom of my list of 200 ranked dramas. The entire plot and vibe rubbed me the wrong way. You capture the various issues perfectly.
(Tone: Sincere) It’s far from my favorite dramas truth be told. What I can say, is that from one of my professional standpoints there are 2 important thematic similarities between NaverTvs 고결한 그대 (Noble, My Love) & MBC’s 지금 거신 전화는 (When The Phone Rings) & they are a Mars opposition to Pluto & a Jupiter Square to Saturn— it’s a push & pull between the masculine needs/desires (being domineering is typical of these aspects) and not being able to ‘conquer’ the way an alpha might like trying to drive with the breaks on. At the end of the day, it makes it hard to ignore how problematic highlighting these themes is.
(Tone: Reflective) While attractiveness certainly plays a role- I’m starting to believe that even if the actors weren’t attractive viewers would still be drawn to the characters because many are drawn to the Plutonian themes of “danger, mystery, power” when packaged up as misguided testosterone that has the potential to be changed & tamed, but I digress…
I hope it won’t take 10 years for people to see & get the similarities on a deeper level, but we’ll see!
(Tone: Sincere) As always- thank you for your thoughtful & inspiring words! 🤗💜🖤✌🏼
Thanks for your expertise, Scarlett. I don't know that viewers would accept 'ugly' male leads acting this way...but I don't think we'll ever find out, either, because the male/female leads are almost always drop-dead gorgeous. I know that beauty is subjective, but they tend to have the universal beauty traits that people find attractive.
I do think it's notable that really good-looking actors have been cast as villains, and I don't think viewers bonded with them just because they were attractive. For instance, Kim Ji-hoon (with his shampoo commercial-worthy long hair) was swooningly good looking in Flower of Evil. Same with Kim Jae-wook in the first season of Voice. But they were so frightening that I was repulsed by them. 😂
Being attractive is probably also one of the reasons why the saga of Luigi Mangione has had its heightened interest. It's human nature, for better or worse (worse!)...
I haven't seen this particular drama but many of the issues you raise are not only in older dramas (My Lovely Sam Soon, Secret Garden, Boys Over Flowers, etc) but also current ones. I got a fair amount of pushback when I posted a thread about Woo Do Hwan's character being toxic in Mr. Plankton (he literally kidnapped and tied up his ex). Same goes for Ko Moon Young in IOTNBO—toxic AF. But because all these lead characters are beautiful we give them a pass. The whole "dealing with a past trauma" may be a legit reason for their behavior but it should not also be an excuse (IRL this is one reason why so many stay in abusive relationships). I think the thing that surprises and frustrates me the most is many of the screenwriters are women. That and the ones swooning over the beautiful leads (and giving them a pass on their bad behavior) are also women. I guess women (throughout the world) have been conditioned to believe this is the fairytale we should all dream of. BTW, Gil Ra Im kicked Ju Won in the shin in Secret Garden several times for being rude to her. This is one of my favorite K-dramas that I give a bit of a pass to because it's nearly 15 years old. I also see an evolution in Ju Won's character that shows us how he comes to understand what's wrong with his original beliefs and actions.
Great points! I remember a woman on Twitter being angry with me because she said the arm grab/forced kissing was sexy af (her words, not mine). I just don't see it that way.
Secret Garden is ones of those shows that so many people love (like My Lovely Sam-soon), but I'm not one of them. One of the needling points for me is how writers present these women as being great fighters. That's not to say they can fight off men every single time. However, Gil-ra literally could fight off multiple men with her advanced taekwondo skills. But they crumble when a man grabs their wrist. Really? I really, really hate that trope. (Cinderella and Four Knights did this, too.)
Anyhow, I always say there's something for everyone and I enjoy hearing everyone's thoughts about what works (or doesn't work) for them!
Ah, the Korean Hand/Arm Grab. Again. And Again. I think it is partially laziness on the part of writers to continue with this trope. It's easier to do it than to find more positive ways to interact and get someone's attention and have a meaningful conversation. We have all been trained to see it as a normal drama trope and overlook it, along with piggyback rides, episode 14-15 break ups and angst, unaccepting parents, alcohol as a vehicle for meaningful conversations...just because its a formula that sells dramas doesn't mean its not time to move on.
Right! While some tropes have a basis in reality (the meddling parents), I've never seen grownups giving each other piggyback rides like they are presented in dramas.
I keep a list of the k-dramas I watch and make comments next to them. To this one I wrote “cheesy, but Sung Hoon!”
A friend actually had recommended this to me, not because she thought it was great, but because Sung Hoon was in it. haha
This is at the very bottom of my list of 200 ranked dramas. The entire plot and vibe rubbed me the wrong way. You capture the various issues perfectly.
Yeah, there are a few that are worse, but those were just poorly executed. This one was problematic on so many levels.
(Tone: Sincere) It’s far from my favorite dramas truth be told. What I can say, is that from one of my professional standpoints there are 2 important thematic similarities between NaverTvs 고결한 그대 (Noble, My Love) & MBC’s 지금 거신 전화는 (When The Phone Rings) & they are a Mars opposition to Pluto & a Jupiter Square to Saturn— it’s a push & pull between the masculine needs/desires (being domineering is typical of these aspects) and not being able to ‘conquer’ the way an alpha might like trying to drive with the breaks on. At the end of the day, it makes it hard to ignore how problematic highlighting these themes is.
(Tone: Reflective) While attractiveness certainly plays a role- I’m starting to believe that even if the actors weren’t attractive viewers would still be drawn to the characters because many are drawn to the Plutonian themes of “danger, mystery, power” when packaged up as misguided testosterone that has the potential to be changed & tamed, but I digress…
I hope it won’t take 10 years for people to see & get the similarities on a deeper level, but we’ll see!
(Tone: Sincere) As always- thank you for your thoughtful & inspiring words! 🤗💜🖤✌🏼
Thanks for your expertise, Scarlett. I don't know that viewers would accept 'ugly' male leads acting this way...but I don't think we'll ever find out, either, because the male/female leads are almost always drop-dead gorgeous. I know that beauty is subjective, but they tend to have the universal beauty traits that people find attractive.
I do think it's notable that really good-looking actors have been cast as villains, and I don't think viewers bonded with them just because they were attractive. For instance, Kim Ji-hoon (with his shampoo commercial-worthy long hair) was swooningly good looking in Flower of Evil. Same with Kim Jae-wook in the first season of Voice. But they were so frightening that I was repulsed by them. 😂
Being attractive is probably also one of the reasons why the saga of Luigi Mangione has had its heightened interest. It's human nature, for better or worse (worse!)...
You are so on point, Sung. I think about all the coverage that Mary Beth Letourneau received.